Iso Cab - I think I am going to take the plunge...

[FC]

...to build one that is. I want to make it out of 3/4 birch plywood. It will basically will be two 14" x 14" x 14" (internal measurements) cubes joint together with a baffle in the middle. The cube on the speaker side will be sealed and the other half will have a door that can be opened to adjust the mic. It is a fairly simple design. Here is my shopping list to see if anyone can spot any potential problems with the things I want to use.

4' x 8' x 3/4" birch plywood, the cuts will be:
    3 pieces of 14" x 14" for the front, baffle and back (door?)
    2 pieces of 28" 15.5" for the base and the top
    2 pieces of 28" x 14" for the sides
I will have Lowe's or Home Depot cut it to my specs above.
2 hinges
1 roll of 2" foam
1 goose neck, unless someone could tell me which one is THIS at 2:41.
1 x 1/4" cylinder input jack
3 x ATA latches to close securely on the unhinged sides of the cover
1 x XLR Jack for my mic out, do you know if I can get one with a female on the outside and a male on the inside? I could solder but I prefer not to.
Some weather stripping for the door
1 x mount for the goose neck
Assorted screws for joining and mounting
1 x Mic clip for my existing e609
1 x speaker

Thanks for going through the list and commenting on it. I am open to any suggestions as this will be my first iso cab.

[FC]

See? I was going to screw it up big time. I just realized the one of the 14" x 14" panels needs to be 15.5" x 15.5" to go over the top. Or I could keep it 14" x 14" but I would have to add an inner edge to ensure a proper sear with the weather stripping. Also, not sure that the hinges I selected may work as the joint in the middle may get in the way and/or the screw holes are not in the right place. Dang, I may have to buy these in person to check them out.

[breakfastime]

See my response to Gilks' query:

http://guitarforum.net/guitarist/index.php/topic,15162.msg242914.html#msg242914


So...am I against the iso box?  No.  I just prefer to be able to tune the sound for the track, using a 'go to' setup like an iso box sort of ties your hands here.  Better to utilize an existing space and learn to create different ambience by angling the cab differently in the room, moving mics, or treating the walls w/packing blankets or chunks of plywood (which can be moved around to affect reflections, or used as improv baffles).  
With an iso box, you don't get these options, and tweaking eq or effects in the mix never sounds as good as getting a good sound to start with.  Work the room, even if it's just a closet or spare bathroom.


Rather than spending a bunch of money building something, spend that dough on  a good mic or two,  and spend $40 on packing blankets and clamps.  Grab any small scraps of plywood you can find (4X8 sheets are cumbersome, but a few 2'X 3 chunks can be stashed behind a door, and then moved into position to liven up a drum set, acoustic guitar, or amp.

Just my opinion--do it however you want.  I mean, you guys don't have to believe me, I only worked in recording studios for about 20/25 years.

edit: one studio I worked at, the guy had a teensy closet (maybe 4 foot square, 8 feet tall) that was super-padded for use as a vocal iso room.  
He spent a small fortune and wound up with a room that sounded like poop.  It was too small, singers couldn't breathe in there.  So we tried sticking amps in there.  Well, it was too padded and amps sounded dead in there.  Bass amps sounded lousy because there wwas not enough room for the bass frequencies to develop.  guitar amps sounded crappy because the room was so dead that high frequencies sounded like $&*!.

The solution?  I yanked  out most all the soundproofing, stapled two packing blankets to the inside of the door, and started using the room to mic small amps like a Fender Deluxe.  Suddenly the room was useful, and we never had isolation problems due to the use of low output amps.  Bigger amps in that same room still tended to sound squashed though because the space was so small.  This guy had an engineering degree and couldn't figure this out.  He was throwing money at the problem, and not really considering tthe problem itself.  Took me a short while to fix it.  I wound up basically rebuilding the whole place on a shoestring budget over the course of a few months.  

Edit #2  just thought of this one.  First time I ever recorded in a real studio was 1980.  A friend of mine had done some stuff there and I had been present for the sessions(just as a spectator).  The studio owner had built two giant (and expensive) movable walls w/glass windows to surround the drum set for isolation.  He had a house kit that was muted to the point of death.  Every piece of the kit was close mic'ed and ready to record.  He'd slap reverb on the drumkit to 'liven it up' in the mix.  Sounded okay, but...really, it sounded like a dead drum kit drenched in reverb.

My band went in there a few months later.  We brought our own drum set, tuned 'live'.  Had the engineer pull his kit out of there (he was pissed because he'd spent so long 'perfecting' his drum sound) and threw our crummy drum set in it's place.  Had the guy mic the kick and snare, with two room mics about 10 feet out from the front of the set.  Left the movable walls pushed out of the way.  DI'd the bass and tried sticking my Fender Twin into his iso booth (too small...do i sound like a broken record?  100 watts in a small space...)  Sooo, we moved my Twin into the studio lobby and cranked it up.

The guy was dumbfounded at the open sound of the drum kit, and total lack of leakage from a 100 watt amp in the next room.  He even said that he was going to use this approach in the future (and he did).  So, what--am i some kind of a genius?  Hell no.  I'd heard my friend's demo, and hated the drum sound. I'd also heard the engineer's album, and hated the drum sound (which was identical on every track, and as my frien'ds demo).  This was before I ever went to audio engineering school.  In fact, this experience is what led me into the recording thing, because I was so aggrivated at trying to get the guy to simply do what his client (me) had asked for, and was paying him to do--and $30 an hour to a kid in 1980 was a lot of money.

You don't have to spend a lot of money if you use your ears, and your noodle.

[FC]

I believe you! I believe you! I know I can get good sounds in my room, I have in the recent past and that is not the issue. The thing is that when I record I test my sound many times before recording, then I do multiple takes and I few hours later I am happy with the results. But then the wife and the neighbors aren't very happy with all the noise. The bottom line is that I only have my man cave to record, and that space does not keep loud guitars in. In your opinion, would an iso cab be the next best thing?

Reamping does not help. Cab emulation is an option, but is that the next best thing? I am open to ideas, that is why I am here.  


...reading your post on Gilks thread...

Mini boom, I agree. I saw this one I mention above, but I don't know what it is and I can't find it. That boom seems to be what I like to use. Do you have any recommendations? (assuming I am still building the cab).

...I like the mono - stereo advise, I can use it for something else (time alignment for my car stereo, set L in phase with R on each channel), Yay! You just gave me a solution for another pita problem I have, thanks.

OK, fine. I do have a closet I may be able to use. It is pretty packed already and I will have to make some room, but how do I stop the sound from coming out? Is the solution going to cost me a lot? Can you point me in the right direction to try this first? It seems like a viable alternative to building an iso cab. I already own a mic, a combo amp and a contraption that is a combo stand and it also has a sturdy mic holder, I can use that. I can stuff that in the closet.

I am all ears...

BTW, +1 and thank you BT.

[breakfastime]

I'd consider some kind of in-the-box (i.e., computer box) amp simulator, or spending the dough on a SansAmp.  They sound great (to my ears, the diff between a digital simulation and the Sansamp is no contest, SansAmp wins)and you can pull a wide array of sounds from one.  You can also gig with it instead of an amp (try that with a computer program), and use it in post production to add character to snare drums, vocals, etc...  

Rather than spending time and money on something that really won't contain the noise, (unless you build a box-inside-of-a-box, inside-of-a-box, etc) bypass the isssue and find a way to go direct.  Without all that excess energy blowing around, you don't need to monitor so loudly, so you won't annoy people as much.

Even trying to contain the sound of a 5 watt tube amp can require a lot of thought and clever engineering.  If you really don't have that much space, an iso box probably won't help.  You should try to play through a Demeter iso box before taking the plunge (to buy or build) because I think you'd be surprised how 'not really quiet' they are.  A video demo on Youtube isn't going to tell you what it sounds like in the next room...

[Gilks]

Just about the wood you're using, particle board is supposed to be really good for that as well. Very dense stuff, don't know if it's more dense than plywood though.

[FC]

Just about the wood you're using, particle board is supposed to be really good for that as well. Very dense stuff, don't know if it's more dense than plywood though.

I've read in a couple of places that plywood sounds better as it is more resonant that MDF. But you are right, MDF is more dense.

[Gilks]

Just about the wood you're using, particle board is supposed to be really good for that as well. Very dense stuff, don't know if it's more dense than plywood though.

I've read in a couple of places that plywood sounds better as it is more resonant that MDF. But you are right, MDF is more dense.

I don't see why you'd want resonance anyways. I find I prefer a dead (no reverb, straight signal from speaker to mic) sound to put in my mixes, then tweaking can be done later. But it's all about taste.

[breakfastime]

MDF particle board is better at absorbing energy than plywood, it's more dense and the patterns of the chips is totally random, and it's compressed together under a lot more pressure than plywoood, with more glue.
Plywood often has gaps throughout, unless you buy the really expensive stuff.

Again, you might want to try out an iso cab before getting into bed with the idea.  Try this: take a closed back speaker cab, lay it face down on the floor (so the speakers are firing into the carpet), and plug in your amp.  Fire that baby up and see how quiet it is.  

Then, go get yourself a SansAmp--no studio (big or small) should be without one.